Episode #23: Local Craftsmanship: The New Face of US Manufacturing and Outdoor Brands, with Caden Gennerman of Dusty Shores
In this episode of US Manufacturing Today, powered by Veryable, host Matt Horine and Caden Gennerman, Founder of Dusty Shores, delve into the evolution of manufacturing with an emphasis on precision, sustainability, strategic vision, and local production. Caden discusses the timely decision to focus on U.S.-based manufacturing practices, the significance of ensuring that outdoor brands' manufacturing processes align with the outdoor spaces they serve, and the ethical and environmental considerations in product creation. Matt and Caden explore the benefits of small batch production, the powerful marketing story of 'Made in America,' and the advantages of adhering to stringent environmental and labor standards absent in many other countries. The conversation highlights the detrimental impacts of fast fashion, the role of packaging in customer perception, and the potential future of American-made products as a standard for investment. Join us as we uncover how local manufacturing not only benefits brands but also advances environmental sustainability.
Links
Timestamps
- 00:00 Introduction to Sustainable Manufacturing
- 00:07 The Impact of Tariffs on Business
- 00:16 Outdoor Brands and Manufacturing Ethics
- 00:41 Challenges in US Manufacturing
- 01:08 Marketing Made in America
- 01:43 Generational Views on Product Ethics
- 01:52 Environmental Impact of Fast Fashion
- 02:08 US vs. Global Environmental Standards
- 02:43 The Importance of Packaging
- 03:01 Investment in American Manufacturing
- 03:23 Conclusion: The Future of Local Manufacturing
Episode Transcript
Matt Horine: [00:00:00] Welcome back to US Manufacturing today. The podcast powered by Veryable where we talk with the leaders, innovators, and change makers, shaping the future of American industry, along with providing regular updates on the state of the industry, the changing landscape policies, and more.
Today's guest is rethinking how we bring manufacturing home, not with brute force or protectionism, but with precision sustainability and strategic vision. I'm thrilled to welcome Caden Gennerman, the founder of Dusty Shores, a company helping outdoor brands reshore their manufacturing to the US without blowing up their operations or their budgets.
From cost modeling and pilot production to matching brands with eco-conscious American manufacturers, dusty Shores is creating a realistic path for brands that want to build at home and tell better stories. Caden, welcome to the show.
Caden Gennerman: Hey, Matt. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's, it's great to be on here. We started Dusty Shores not too long ago. Actually. I started it almost right before the tariffs were announced that they're happening, which was almost some of the best business timing I think I've ever had in my life. [00:01:00] I started it simply because I've been an avid outdoorsman my entire life and grew up in the outdoor industry. My dad was involved in it the entire time and he helped several companies design products as well, and build products that people could market.
And back then a lot of American, a lot of outdoor products were made in America, and as time went on. Margins got cut and people started moving to Taiwan and stuff. So I start, I remember the products made back then by PE companies like Outdoor Research and Black Diamond and so many other companies that were made here in America.
And then watching them move over to China and Taiwan. It makes sense from a company perspective, but when you're talking about an outdoor brand, you're, it's usually you're thinking of something sustainable. Like Patagonia's always donating so much money to their, the outdoor programs in the United States and preserving our wildlife.
And so I think it's important for outdoor brands to also. Look at how their manufacturing is affecting the outdoor space that their products are made for.
Matt Horine: You know, that's a big thing, like the mission alignment, right? It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to cater to that audience and those types of [00:02:00] consumers without actually living the value.
So it's a really big piece of it. Big question for me. What was the moment you realized there was a gap between brands wanting to reshore and actually being able to do it? And follow up to that is what makes outdoor brands such a compelling place to start? I know you mentioned you're an outdoorsman, but how did those two things match up?
Caden Gennerman: I definitely noticed there's a disconnect because I feel like a lot of brands go around, go at it the wrong. Especially when they start looking at it, it shouldn't be, okay, how can we make a product for the same price in the United States as we can in Taiwan? What's the price difference? It should be, okay, what does this product make our brand look like?
Is what I think is a big thing, especially for outdoor brands. That's the way I reason I looked at it was if you want your outdoor brand to look like a good outdoor brand, in my opinion, you should be looking at ethics, sustainability, and how you're protecting your own environment and also supporting local jobs, supporting the people that use your products.
So I was like, if there's a disconnect there, might as well try and figure it out. So we focus mainly on starting companies, try and do small production. We don't [00:03:00] try and start full batch. If you wanna start full batch, we have no issue getting you there. We try and figure out, hey, okay, let's make this many units and let's see how we can do them.
Create a marketing campaign, create a campaign that makes your brand look good and show that you're moving your production and moving in the right direction.
Matt Horine: Yeah, no, that's great. It's one of those things where it meets the moment. You mentioned business timing there, but it's also there's an overwhelming sentiment or reshoring made in America.
I think you have some statistics on your website about the percentage of consumers that prefer to have their products made in America. That's also pretty surprising for Gen Z. You described your model as making reshoring realistic and not risky, and you tapped into a few things there, but I wanna double down.
How does that work? Removing the risky part?
Caden Gennerman: When we look at taking on clients, we're not just taking you on for the profit of what you're gonna pay us. There's a lot of companies, sadly, that their business models and the products they make, they just can't be made in the United States. If we're looking at super complex materials and or if we're looking at super tr cheap products like companies like Shane.
They would never be able to make in [00:04:00] the United States, and that's just how their business model is made. There's also companies like Apple, they can't do manufacturing in the United States because their products are too complicated. But the same thing comes into the apparel. If we're working with multi-layer fabrics and stuff like that for, you can't get that product.
You can't make that material in the United States, and if you do, it's gonna be crazy expensive. And some companies just, it doesn't make sense. So we wanna look at your brand from a whole and see if it makes sense first. Then we break down from there, see what products we can get made, see what manufacturers we can connect you with.
And then sometimes with the companies that we get involved with, we've already prematched a previous company that makes similar products with that manufacturer. So we can move that company into that manufacturer as well, and we can speed up the process. With American manufacturing by matching similar companies with the same manufacturer.
Matt Horine: That's a lot of it. I think a lot of the complexities that we see when folks talk about reshoring, and maybe if you get into like heavier industrial or some of those types of things when you're manufacturing in China, it's a lot of the IP is stuck there, right? Like you can't get the molds out and those types [00:05:00] of things.
And this seems a little bit less burdensome on the infrastructure, but something that materials are probably the primary cost driver. So that totally makes sense. You alluded to one other thing there that was really interesting. You do a total cost modeling process where you do do that matching. What are some of the surprise brands, some of the surprises that brands see when they look past just labor costs or material costs or those types of things?
Caden Gennerman: I think one of the big things, especially with a very quickly changing world that we have now, is the speed at which they can get new products developed, new colorways developed, and stuff like that. If we have companies and we're moving on small batch, we can quickly contact manufacturers, be like, okay, we wanna change this colorway, or We want to get this new product made this way.
And for a lot of companies that are looking into that vision of trying to be on the curve of the trend at all time, it's something that you can't deal with and do with Asia because first of all, you have to deal with the freight shipping afterwards. So you're dealing with months in months of preparing in advance, and when you're doing domestically, there's no freight [00:06:00] shipping.
You can fly it for cheap costs, you can deliver it by truck. You don't have to worry about extended stuff. And a lot of the times even we can match com companies with manufacturers that with are within hours drive away. So that makes it a big change. We can all, so you can go there. Can see your product being made.
And we also try and turn that into the marketing thing is, Hey, let's make a marketing story around your product being made here in America because people don't wanna see videos of your product being made in China, but people could be interested to be watching them being made in the United States.
Matt Horine: No, that's a really good point. So many people are fascinated with the manufacturing process because they don't see it. They think that it is something that's like you alluded to shine, and there's others like the Temu, and of course Amazon does a lot of sourcing from Asia, particularly in China. I think one other big thing that you tapped into was tariffs, freight, volatility, lead times.
These are things that are not going away. It's something that we entered this new global era. Whether you are in for them or against them. It is something that has not been here for a long time and it is here now and I'd are You surprised me [00:07:00] and you heard it here first. This is one of those things that people are surprised or customers just checking that I heard this right.
Customers are surprised with the speed and the matches that you can make, which has historically been one of the chief kind of complaints about reassuring, that's the cost is too high, that the process is too slow. The inputs are right, those types of things. So it sounds like you're making really good matches on that front.
Caden Gennerman: Yeah, especially you have to understand is like when we get involved with a company, we operate similar to what an employee would operate as, but we're very focused on single tasks. You, we put all of our drive into finding the manufacturer and that's our wake and day call for you. Instead of having a employee that's working on six different projects is once we try and get it done as quickly as possible.
And sometimes it can take longer and sometimes it can take shorter. Just depends really what the product is.
Matt Horine: Really good point. I've spent my time in the past looking for a contract manufacturers and trying to figure out those supply chains. It's super complex and if somebody's the point man on it, which is exactly what it sounds like your company does for really great brands.
That's a huge administrative burden [00:08:00] relief that people can walk through that process, know and understand a brand and also tell the story of it on the other side. 'cause this is a really great story. It's something that people are looking for. Let's dive into a little bit more company specific for you.
'cause I was walking through your website and I saw some of the. The structures that you provide, and I thought this was really a critical thing to talk about because it's, first of all, great branding on your part or how you described it. Let's talk about the Heritage versus Pioneer editions, the Heritage Edition.
Very clever idea, taking a really beloved product and reimagining it with us craftsmanship. If I could umbrella term it like that, what's the response been like there?
Caden Gennerman: That's definitely one of the main things that we work with, especially since companies don't wanna put a lot of capital into developing a new product and stuff like that.
It's a great response, definitely on that end. And a lot of companies, especially outdoor companies, have produced very similar products, or at least that they've had like lines of products that they produced since they were made in America and then they moved to Taiwan. So we try and bring those products back first.
'cause first of all, we know they'll probably work here in the United States and [00:09:00] that, so it just, it's basically just, that's that'd say the core part of our business. But we have to understand that American manufacturing is limited. To what they can produce at times. So that's the big thing we focus on with the, the Pioneer Edition, is we try and build a product line that's centered around the capabilities of American manufacturing while also holding your brand's core values to you.
So let's say we're partnering with a factory that's really good at working with cons, and you guys have a couple con products. You don't really know. If you wanna do, we'll work on specifically creating a product or taking one of your products that you have existing and moving it around and changing it so that it can fit directly into the American manufacturing system.
Matt Horine: Yeah, that cultural fit. And it's probably a pretty important thing because you think about it, and we've had some guests on this show and we've talked to people where I've seen in the early parts of their career, they were maybe taking things out of the United States, offshoring it for lower labor costs.
And so you're taking an American brand, an American product. If there is that element of, I don't wanna say re americanizing it, but probably putting it back into American manufacturing processes, thinking [00:10:00] through everything from quality to, and this is a little bit bigger than just the, some of the brands you work with, but injecting that backend to eliminate those concerns around speed, resources, materials, logistics, those types of things all take a kind of a re-imagining when there's this kind of moment and concerted effort to really get it done.
On the Pioneer edition. How, without just maybe a general anonymous brand, how are forward thinking brands using this to innovate and stand out? What's the best use case study that you can think of?
Caden Gennerman: I'd say definitely we have one brand that was the Pioneer Edition. We use it, we, it's not as, it's not as often that it's an addition that we use, like what that arc worth thing is.
A lot of people wanna do Heritage, but when we do Pioneer Edition, a lot of the things that we look into are like, we find, we look, look down their products and we pull parts away. That we know that this doesn't work, but we can replace it with this. 'cause America does a lot of like fabrics that are treated with polyurethane and stuff like that.
So that makes it easy. So we can substitute that for the waterproofing. Instead of doing like AAA or FA fabric that is super complicated and [00:11:00] difficult to get in the United States and a lot of brands really enjoy it 'cause they get to build an entire line usually on their website that's perfectly, it's sourced towards American Made 'cause we don't recommend most to many companies to go full American made from the get go.
We think it's like a process thing or you do it with one line just to say that you have it, which looks good for you and the other brand. So it's like when you can go onto someone's website. And they have the product lines, and then they just have the Made in America product line. I, we think that's just like a really powerful statement to have for a lot of brands.
Matt Horine: Absolutely. It's a transition and it's a process, right? There's no full switch, and I think people are finding that out now. I saw anecdotally there was something on X the other day about someone who thought that they made in America as much as they did, but they didn't realize were some of their down the line.
Second, third tier stuff came from, and it increased their costs a little bit, but it also moved it a little bit more local, so it wa, you know, washed out in the end. Shift focus a little bit 'cause you said something about that made in America and that appeal. And I want to talk about a couple of things that you hit on in the [00:12:00] opening Gen Z, sustainability and what we could probably umbrella term global accountability around these types of themes.
Let's talk Gen Z. What are you seeing from younger consumers and workers when it comes to the made in the USA movement?
Caden Gennerman: I don't really think my generation necessarily cares about where the product made. It's more about how the product's made. They care about the ethics behind the product, the sustainability behind the product, because a lot of people, don't get me wrong, that just don't care.
They just want it or they can't afford to care about it, which is just a realistic thing. But the people that do care, it's not about where the product's made, it's about how it's made, what's used to make it, and how did its manufacturing impact the environment. And that's the big thing is looking into it because in the United States we have the ethical manufacturing.
We have. Carbon dioxide laws and stuff like that. And if you even look at France right now, they just passed their fast fashion law. And that's just like a great representation of what's gonna happen globally. If you think that's gonna stay in France, it's going to continue to change Who? I believe that the entire EU will probably put that in place, not just France.
That fast fashion's gonna have marketing restraints on it, [00:13:00] it's gonna have environmental restraints on it, and it's gonna become something that we see moving. Throughout the United States and probably the world more frequently because it's real. It's destroying the environment, the fast fashion movement.
Matt Horine: Yeah. You mentioned that when we first met, we were talking about some of the gaps in what reality is versus what people are actually doing and fast fashion. I chalk it up to, I remember a few years back when. E-bikes and e scooters became a big thing. And I remember watching reels or something on social media where they had this excess of bikes or scooters that were just probably getting dumped in the ocean because it was obsolete inventory, or they didn't know how to get rid of it.
So it does create a lot of waste, which is. Super interesting because most people don't think about the end stage lifecycle of that product. But many people don't realize the US has some of the best environmental labor standards in the world, while countries like China and India often lack enforceable protections.
Why is this gap so important to highlight? And you also mentioned Taiwan, which I thought was interesting. I'll ask a follow up on that here in a minute. [00:14:00]
Caden Gennerman: Unpredictability, since COVID-19 is the new normal, we have increased costs are always jumping around, inflation's moving. No one really knows where tariffs are now in place.
So I think it's great to build a functional supply chain in America that you can rely on when time, when push comes to shove
Matt Horine: for sure. It's one of those things we talk about on this show pretty often, that reindustrialization is at heart a national security issue. It's fun to talk about a consumer product or consumer products because a lot of times that focuses on defense, industrial capacity type companies.
Our steel making capability, but where the US consumer sits and what we buy from the global market has so much to do with that. I told somebody at one point, are we even making our own Tylenol? Are we making things that are so critical for us that are in our daily lives? And when you look to the consumer market, they're the last mover, right?
Because people have moved for offshore labor costs, they have moved for. This labor arbitrage type structure or lower cost of materials, but then they're moving it all back and that creates all those [00:15:00] sustainability issues that you mentioned Anecdotally, I think the other thing that I wanted to highlight on here was, uh, we joked about, I think when we first met was the Pacific garbage patch is floating island of trash in the ocean.
It's not made up of us plastic. It's largely from countries with little regulation or waste control. And so back to the beginning, how should outdoor brands confront those kinds of contradictions, which I think you're. Providing a channel for them to do. But is there a lot more work to go on that?
Caden Gennerman: There's definitely more work to go on it.
It's definitely, it's a scary thought for a lot of brands to move production. 'cause it's not cheap and that's the reality behind it. And so that's why we look at the smaller batch, trying to keep it cheap and see if it works out to see if we can scale further from it. And yeah, I think the contradiction, the big thing is all these outdoor brands, once again.
They push this idea of outdoors, we do the products and outdoors, but is what they're like. Donating money isn't just enough to get back to where what your brand is meant for. You can't just donate money and expect. Changes in the environment to start happening, you have to take action to start doing it.
And a lot of these outdoor brands used to [00:16:00] make products in the America for the military and stuff like that. And over the years they've just started cutting back more and more. Most of these outdoor brands that did, they don't even produce a single product in the United States anymore. And if they do, it's probably the smallest thing they possibly can, like maybe a knitted beanie.
Wow.
Matt Horine: Yeah. No, that's, it's a huge disparity and it's one that is super interesting because you're tying it back into sustainability and what. The next wave of consumers were just a couple of years away from basically millennials, gen Z and Gen Alpha being the primary consumers in the market and older of what we would consider like traditional wealth.
They wanna know where it comes from, which is, uh, an interesting kind of closure point for people who wanna make things in America. We see that all those types of labor law and environmental law, there's almost been a tendency for overregulation in some of it, just because it's the right thing to do to make sure workers have a good place to go.
They're treated fairly. And on the environmental side, it's just the right thing to do. But countries that where we've offshore most of our manufacturing, like China, I saw a stat today that China has more greenhouse gas emissions than [00:17:00] the entire rest of the developed world combined. It's a huge amount.
So we've toured for the labor triage in exchange for looking the other way on those types of sustainability factors, which just seems so at odds with the niche that you found, especially in outdoor brands. That's pretty exciting and a lot of exciting things. What's next for Dusty Shores? Are you seeing the momentum build across other industries?
Do you have aspirations for other verticals or what's next for you guys?
Caden Gennerman: Right now we're just really focused on building up kind of our client base and also our connection base. But we've recently started looking into helping companies do American packaging. 'cause American packaging is one of those things that's already on the cutting edge 'cause it's low labor.
So the techno and the technology is always developing. So America's got probably some of the best packaging in the world and when we're looking at tariffs and freight shipping as well, if you're already doing pre-packaging while you're, before you ship it on freights, that's increasing your costs exponentially and it doesn't make sense.
It. Here's my thing is, the way I look at it is packaging is the first thing [00:18:00] your customer sees when they receive your product. So you might as well have a story behind it. And if you're just gonna give them some nonsense stuff that just doesn't look good, there's no story behind it, then it's okay. Well, one thing Apple was the most famous for when they came out was their packaging.
It's like that was the go-to was okay. Wow. Their packaging is beautiful and you see it in the tech world, all the tech companies. Focus as much as they can on packaging. They put money into it, and I think it's about time consumer products and soft apparel businesses start putting some more effort into it and start trying to make a story behind their packaging it.
Because if they can't make their product in America, the least thing they can do is try and see how they can integrate America into their supply chain. And so I think packaging's a great place to start. It's low cost and it's low labor. It's something you can do and it costs cost for you if you're doing freight shipping.
'cause you don't have to ship with the extra weight.
Matt Horine: Yeah, that's a really good point. You stole my example. I was gonna have the follow up there with Apple and kind of the experience of getting a new Apple product. They were really the pioneer on that even in past lives where we were manufacturing things, that was a gold standard.
And then I was working a little bit more of an industrial environment. [00:19:00] It's, wait a minute, we have technicians just ripping this stuff open and we've gone too far on the tech experience side of it because it is much more of an experience for people to be able to. Get a package and they feel like the quality, the work, the craftsmanship, all of it is bundled together, which is a huge component and why it doesn't happen from overseas.
'cause you're just adding tons of weight to the shipping chart. This is something I ask often of guests, but what does success look like for your company and maybe for the broader reshoring movement over the next two years because the time horizon on this type of stuff is very short. It's not something, of course, we can sit here and theorize about 20 years out, 10 years out, whatever it is.
What does success look like on both fronts?
Caden Gennerman: For us right now, we just wanna become a go-to trusted source for companies to come to, whether they hire us or not, but seeing if they can make it work through us is the first, is our first step. We wanna become the people in the outdoor industry and maybe even the soft apparel industry, and hopefully maybe the packaging industry where the companies come to us looking through sustainability, American manufacturing, looking to see how they can improve their brand image as [00:20:00] well.
Right now, I think in the American, the Manufac, and at least in America, and the reshoring movement, I think one of the biggest things that. I would love to see is having made in America become a requirement for a lot of companies to get an investment. So I think like American product line, and it's not just because American product line looks like that, but in the world we're having right now, I personally believe that it's going to fractionalize.
So the global economy is going to start breaking apart and global trades is gonna start breaking apart a little bit, which is, I took this idea from a book by Peter Zhan. The End of the World is just the beginning. And so in my idea, it's for these investment companies to wanna invest into an outdoor apparel or an apparel company.
They want to make sure that it's foolproof and that it has manufacturing in place. It can rely on after, let's say China. Something happens in China where a war breaks out in Asia, or if oil becomes more expensive and they can't get their products cheaper, it's become a thing. Now I want [00:21:00] American manufacturing to become a thing where it becomes the fallback option, and there's almost a stronghold of companies to come to if stuff starts to break down.
Matt Horine: That's a really good point because you look at what's going on right now at the macro scale, there's certainly an upset to the established world order. If you look post Cold War, I think people will refer to it as a new world order, which I think is permanent, where our trade environment, it became something that was free trade, but wasn't fair trade.
Was it free trade in the sense that American consumers were getting cheaper goods, but were they exporting as quality as high quality of goods? Was our economy shifting to. A services based economy where we don't make things, where we don't build things, and all those are super complex issues. And to your point, the investment requirement is something that is going to be necessary to get people finally motivated just beyond whatever the things that we talk about, which are exciting and things that should be motivators in and of themselves for better products, better quality, better sustainability, but doing it in a way that.
It [00:22:00] kind of emboldens your country. You see a big shift to that in tech, and I think ultimately there's probably a shift to that in consumer products and outdoor goods. And somebody is probably waiting on the next Great American brand, and if they want to do that, where can they find out more about it?
Caden Gennerman: I think the best way people can find out about American manufacturing is just taking steps, getting on a call with us. We don't charge anything just for an exploratory call. Just see, let's just take a look at your catalog. Let's take a look at what you're doing. And with us moving into packaging as well, we're trying to break into a little bit of the supplement industry is our big one as supplement packaging is expensive and it's cheap to ship over the powders and stuff like that.
So we think that's a great one. And it also ties into the outdoor industry 'cause people that are usually taking supplements. Usually are also active people and worried about stuff like that. And I think supplements are a great one because the biggest reliant for supplements I think of is their selling point is what does their packaging look like?
Because all the all, they all look the same. It's all like a white powder or something in a pill form. So it's what's on the outside. And that's where I think [00:23:00] American manufacturing could become a big thing. 'cause that's almost. Central part of your product as a supplement manufacturer or supplement company?
Matt Horine: Absolutely. No. There's so much creativity and so many things that can go into this, and I'm really excited to get to talk with you today and to learn about it because it's people and companies like yours that are making the movement happen. It's not just. Big investment and big defense tech and those types of things.
This is where the reshoring movement really gets, its driving along with Reindustrialization. Where can our listeners go to find out more about your company and potentially reach out to you?
Caden Gennerman: Yeah, so you can go to www.dustyshores.com, D-U-S-T-Y-S-H-O-R-E-S.com, and then you can just email me at Caden. Dusty shores.com and come to my LinkedIn, Caden Gennerman, and yeah, I look forward to talking to all anyone that wants to reach out.
It's something I think is, is fun. 'cause instead of looking at it as just a business expense, look at it as well, what can make our product stand out? What can make our company stand out? Who knows, it's, you can do super cool marketing [00:24:00] campaigns, especially for outdoor companies. One thing I've always thought was, it'd be fun to push, it would be for an outdoor company, like one that has sponsored athletes would be launching an American made product line and then doing something big.
I live in Park City, Utah, which is a huge outdoor community, and we have a lot of sponsored athletes here, and a lot of sponsored athletes are sponsored by the same companies that live here. And so like a company that was made here, for example, like Armada. Skis. They are based here in Park City and they do their production in Austria, which is also still great 'cause they're owned by Americans.
But like what if they made an American product line and did like a launch event here with a bunch of the athletes that are sponsored in the town they're from, with the athletes that live here as well. I don't know. I've always thought that would be something fun to do.
Matt Horine: Absolutely it's the theme of the story is 100% manufacturing is local and from the most successful companies we've spoken to, they are doing it and they've been doing it.
And now that message is out. So if you're look going to find and build the next Great American brand, be sure to reach out to Caden and Dusty Shores. Caden, thanks for coming on today. We appreciated it.
Caden Gennerman: [00:25:00] Yeah, thank you very much. I'm really excited to be here and I'm really excited to talk with any of your listeners that wanna reach out to me.
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